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Date: 16.09.2017

Forever Jung (1995)

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I have a difficult riddle for you. A mailing list I belong to has discussed the following quotation several times during the past ten years, and the question of its origin has never been satisfactorily resolved. Writing about music is like dancing about architecture. There is another common version of the quote: With the help of some wonderful music librarians and an individual who left a comment on this blog post QI can report some revealing citations. All quick, very natural, and captured on vinyl.

The second earliest cite was found by Mike Kuniavsky who presented a pointer to its location in a comment. The saying is attributed to Martin Mull; however, the domain of the quotation is knowingly transformed to painting. So with Madore we have the classic situation: Writing about painting is like dancing about architecture. Based on current evidence QI believes that Martin Mull is the most likely originator of this expression.

Mull did release several albums combining comedy and music in the s. It is possible that he used the phrase in one of these venues, or perhaps he said it during a stage performance or interview. Researchers have been attempting to trace this well-known saying for many years. It is a recurrent topic in discussion forums and on mailing lists. The clever maxim was probably not created ex nihilo. QI has found similar expressions that date back to There is a family of related sayings that comment about such difficult exertions as: Strictly considered, writing about music is as illogical as singing about economics.

All the other arts can be talked about in the terms of ordinary life and experience. A poem, a statue, a painting or a play is a representation of somebody or something, and can be measurably described the purely aesthetic values aside by describing what it represents. In the remark reappears in the form of a sphinxlike simile.

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This conforms to the most common modern template. The first slot contains terms like dancing, singing, or knitting and the second slot contains terms like architecture, economics, or football. Over a period of decades different words and phrases are substituted into the slots of this template.

In the same author, Winthrop Parkhurst, repeated his observation in an influential scholarly musical journal called The Musical Quarterly.

He also elevated the simile to the status of an apophthegm [MQSE]: Some critic once observed that talking about music is like singing about economics; and it must be admitted that most conversation about music supports the apophthegm, for it is commonly as strange a perversion of the subject as would be the transformation of Das Kapital into a lullaby.

The next citation in chronological order is the one given above from where the maxim is attributed to Martin Mull by Gary Sperrazza.

This version refers to writing about music as did the first quotation. There are a massive number of cites for this aphorism and for variants that fit the template. Therefore, only a small sample of these citations can be presented here. The arrangement continues in chronological order.

He was asked about the interpretation and misinterpretation of his song lyrics, and he responded with a simile that fits the template [JLF]: Listen, writing about music is like talking about fucking. Who wants to talk about it? But you know, maybe some people do want to talk about it. He explained his reluctance to grant interviews by using a simile that harks back to the early citations in and because it invokes singing [MOS]: His response used the maxim as part of a general critique of written reviews of music.

Further below is an excerpt from a magazine interview in in which Costello disclaimed credit for creating the maxim [MEC]: Framing all the great music out there only drags down its immediacy. For several years the quotation above was the earliest known cite for this famous saying.

That is one reason the words are strongly associated with Costello. This valuable cite was located by Mark Turner and appeared on the webpage of Alan P. Top quotation expert Fred R. Shapiro, editor of the Yale Book of Quotations, contributes to the popular blog at the Freakonomics website.

He discusses quotations and proverbs and presents rigorously verified information supplemented with updated research.

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On October 9, an interview with flutist Eugenia Zukerman was published in a Nebraska newspaper. Zukerman who is also a novelist was queried about her experiences writing [OWM]: When asked, she admits that writing about music, as humorist Martin Mull once quipped, is like dancing about architecture. It is its own language.

Other musicians were credited with the saying in the s. La Jolla—Encountering music from non-Western cultures lends credibility to the barb Zappa hurled at his less-than-favorable critics. The more engaging a performance of exotic music, the more that description and metaphor tend to diminish its unique character.

In a review of the piece in the Philadelphia Daily News noted that the memorable saying was flashed on the screen during her concert. Further below is an excerpt from a radio interview in during which Anderson disclaimed credit for creating the adage [PNLA]: In a variant of the saying occurred in quotation marks and was assigned to the musician Jackson Browne.

The author depicted the difficulty of cogently writing about art by employing two similes that follow the template of the family of aphorisms under discussion [TLKM]: Writing about art is like dancing about architecture or knitting about music.

It is a category mistake. In Martin Mull who is also a painter used a variant of the saying in one of his own books; however, he did not attribute the saying to himself. He stated that he heard it as part of a story about a teacher. This may mean that Mull did not originate the saying, or it may mean that he was simply using a rhetorical distancing device.

In the radio program Morning Edition investigated the saying, and the host Susan Stamberg contacted the artist Laurie Anderson. During the discussion Stamberg mentions a website; she is referring to the website of Alan P.

Scott cited earlier in this post [APSM]. I always try to preface it by Steve Martin. Now, Steve Martin, the comedian, is the one who said that.

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Thank you for clarifying it for us, we think. And he lists Steve Martin on there. The interviewer was immediately reminded of the most common variant which he attributed to Costello [BGDA]: Below is an excerpt that begins with a question directed to Costello and follows with his reply [QECM]: These days you dabble in music journalism for Vanity Fair magazine. It still follows me around, that one.

Contacting a candidate such as Martin Mull or Steve Martin directly to ask questions on this topic would help to resolve the mystery. Here is an excerpt from the blog [OP]: Hammer of Carl Hammer Gallery in Chicago.

Carl contacted Martin for me, and Martin confirmed that he is indeed the originator of the famous one-liner. Note that this datum was sent along a chain: Mull talked to Hammer who talked to Johnston who wrote an item on a blog. A more direct statement from Mull with fewer intermediaries would of course be desirable. Perhaps Mull could provide details about where or when the quote was spoken or written. Mike Johnston deserves kudos for initiating a query and sharing the results.

QI will stop adding citations at this point although an almost endless supply is available. Currently, Martin Mull is the leading candidate for crafter of this maxim. Intriguingly, there exists a family of related sayings that follow a template, and these adages begin in or earlier. QI thanks you for your question and wishes you fine success in your ventures whether they involve: Google Books gives an incorrect date of Schirmer now Oxford University Press.

The quote is on page 67], Bauer, London, UK. Verified with photocopies of pages from the article. Special thanks to the librarian at the Cleveland Public Library Periodical Center for locating this text on paper in the March issue when given an inaccurate cite to the February issue.

New York Times blog, freakonomics. Accessed January 27 link link Update history: On June 30, the citation in Arts Magazine dated December was added to the post.